Post by noxot on Apr 17, 2012 15:07:03 GMT
for visions, in I think 2 esdras i think it was uriel who talked with esdras.
in hermas it was phanuel.
daniel seemed to see gabriel and michael?
in tobit raphael was there.
it is recorded that enoch talked to a lot.
I don't understand much of anything at all about angels... but this is all very amazing to me.
1 enoch is an amazing book. but remember it is just a vision and the angels do seem to be beings like us but they are just... celestial and those things are hard to grasp.
enoch chapters 39-40 says:
39: And it shall come to pass in those days that elect and holy children will descend from the high heaven, and their seed will become one with the children of men. 2And in those days Enoch received books of zeal and wrath, and books of disquiet and expulsion.
And mercy shall not be accorded to them, saith the Lord of Spirits.
3And in those days a whirlwind carried me off from the earth,
And set me down at the end of the heavens.
4And there I saw another vision, the dwelling-places of the holy,
And the resting-places of the righteous.
5Here mine eyes saw their dwellings with His righteous angels,
And their resting-places with the holy.
And they petitioned and interceded and prayed for the children of men,
And righteousness flowed before them as water,
And mercy like dew upon the earth:
Thus it is amongst them for ever and ever.
6And in that place mine eyes saw the Elect One of righteousness and of faith,
And righteousness shall prevail in his days,
And the righteous and elect shall be without number before Him for ever and ever.
7And I saw his dwelling-place under the wings of the Lord of Spirits.
And all the righteous and elect before Him shall be strong as fiery lights,
And their mouth shall be full of blessing,
And their lips extol the name of the Lord of Spirits,
And righteousness before Him shall never fail,
And uprightness shall never fail before Him.
8There I wished to dwell,
And my spirit longed for that dwelling-place:
And there heretofore hath been my portion,
For so has it been established concerning me before the Lord of Spirits.
9In those days I praised and extolled the name of the Lord of Spirits with blessings and praises, because He hath destined me for blessing and glory according to the good pleasure of the Lord of Spirits. 10For a long time my eyes regarded that place, and I blessed Him and praised Him, saying: "Blessed is He, and may He be blessed from the beginning and for evermore. 11And before Him there is no ceasing. He knows before the world was created what is for ever and what will be from generation unto generation. 12Those who sleep not bless Thee: they stand before Thy glory and bless, praise, and extol, saying: 'Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of Spirits: He filleth the earth with spirits.'" 13And here my eyes saw all those who sleep not: they stand before Him and bless and say: "Blessed be Thou, and blessed be the name of the Lord for ever and ever." 14And my face was changed; for I could no longer behold.
40: And after that I saw thousands of thousands and ten thousand times ten thousand, I saws multitude beyond number and reckoning, who stood before the Lord of Spirits.
2And on the four sides of the Lord of Spirits I saw four presences, different from those that sleep not, and I learnt their names: for the angel that went with me made known to me their names, and showed me all the hidden things.
3And I heard the voices of those four presences as they uttered praises before the Lord of glory.
4The first voice blesses the Lord of Spirits for ever and ever.
5And the second voice I heard blessing the Elect One and the elect ones who hang upon the Lord of Spirits.
6And the third voice I heard pray and intercede for those who dwell on the earth and supplicate in the name of the Lord of Spirits.
7And I heard the fourth voice fending off the satans and forbidding them to come before the Lord of Spirits to accuse them who dwell on the earth.
8After that I asked the angel of peace who went with me, who showed me everything that is hidden: "Who are these four presences which I have seen and whose words I have heard and written down?"
9And he said to me: "This first is Michael, the merciful and long-suffering: and the second, who is set over all the diseases and all the wounds of the children of men, is Raphael: and the third, who is set over all the powers, is Gabriel: and the fourth, who is set over the repentance unto hope of those who inherit eternal life, is named Phanuel."
10And these are the four angels of the Lord of Spirits and the four voices I heard in those days.
then another place talks about some what seem to be archangels:
20 And these are the names of the holy angels who watch.
2Uriel, one of the holy angels, who is over the world and over Tartarus.
3Raphael, one of the holy angels, who is over the spirits of men.
4Raguel, one of the holy angels who takes vengeance on the world of the luminaries.
5Michael, one of the holy angels, to wit, he that is set over the best part of mankind and over chaos.
6Saraqael, one of the holy angels, who is set over the spirits, who sin in the spirit.
7Gabriel, one of the holy angels, who is over Paradise and the serpents and the Cherubim.
8Remiel, one of the holy angels, whom God set over those who rise.
there are 7 angels listed there. in a different version of enoch there is only 6 listed but I assume this is the fuller/better script...
now this is somewhere in hermas, what I don't get is that there are 6 young men and not 7, it is a mystery to me.:
"Whereupon the old woman approached, accompanied by six young men whom I had also seen before;"
and here is another place:
“This is magnificent and marvellous. But who are the six young men who are engaged in building?” And she said, “These are the holy angels of God, who were first created, and to whom the Lord handed over His whole creation, that they might increase and build up and rule over the whole creation. By these will the building of the tower be finished.”
"These also are holy angels of the Lord, but the former six are more excellent than these."
another place about the 6 angels and maybe other 4? I dunno! or it could be that 2 conveyed her to the tower and 4 lifted the seat, in another part of the book 2 had took the Church ( the lady ) and 4 took the seat:
On her ceasing to speak to me, those six young men who were engaged in building came and conveyed her to the tower, and other four lifted up the seat and carried it also to the tower. The faces of these last I did not see, for they were turned away from me.
another place of 6 men:
I saw six men come, tall, and distinguished, and similar in appearance, and they summoned, a multitude of men. And they who came were also tall men, and handsome, and powerful; and the six men commanded them to build a tower above the rock. And great was the noise of those men who came to build the tower, as they ran hither and thither around the gate.
and christ with them:
And, behold, after a little I see an array of many men coming, and in the midst of them one man (2 Esdras 2:43) of so remarkable a size as to overtop the tower. And the six men who had worked upon the building were with him, and many other honourable men were around him
another area of the text that is explaining some things:
You saw,” he continued, “the six men, and the tall and glorious man in the midst of them, who walked round the tower, and rejected the stones from the building?” “I saw him, sir,” I answered. “The glorious man,” he said, “is the Son of God, and those six glorious angels are those who support Him on the right hand and on the left. None of these glorious angels,” he continued, “will enter in unto God apart from Him. Whosoever does not receive His283 name, shall not enter into the kingdom of God.”
in hermas it was phanuel.
daniel seemed to see gabriel and michael?
in tobit raphael was there.
it is recorded that enoch talked to a lot.
I don't understand much of anything at all about angels... but this is all very amazing to me.
1 enoch is an amazing book. but remember it is just a vision and the angels do seem to be beings like us but they are just... celestial and those things are hard to grasp.
enoch chapters 39-40 says:
39: And it shall come to pass in those days that elect and holy children will descend from the high heaven, and their seed will become one with the children of men. 2And in those days Enoch received books of zeal and wrath, and books of disquiet and expulsion.
And mercy shall not be accorded to them, saith the Lord of Spirits.
3And in those days a whirlwind carried me off from the earth,
And set me down at the end of the heavens.
4And there I saw another vision, the dwelling-places of the holy,
And the resting-places of the righteous.
5Here mine eyes saw their dwellings with His righteous angels,
And their resting-places with the holy.
And they petitioned and interceded and prayed for the children of men,
And righteousness flowed before them as water,
And mercy like dew upon the earth:
Thus it is amongst them for ever and ever.
6And in that place mine eyes saw the Elect One of righteousness and of faith,
And righteousness shall prevail in his days,
And the righteous and elect shall be without number before Him for ever and ever.
7And I saw his dwelling-place under the wings of the Lord of Spirits.
And all the righteous and elect before Him shall be strong as fiery lights,
And their mouth shall be full of blessing,
And their lips extol the name of the Lord of Spirits,
And righteousness before Him shall never fail,
And uprightness shall never fail before Him.
8There I wished to dwell,
And my spirit longed for that dwelling-place:
And there heretofore hath been my portion,
For so has it been established concerning me before the Lord of Spirits.
9In those days I praised and extolled the name of the Lord of Spirits with blessings and praises, because He hath destined me for blessing and glory according to the good pleasure of the Lord of Spirits. 10For a long time my eyes regarded that place, and I blessed Him and praised Him, saying: "Blessed is He, and may He be blessed from the beginning and for evermore. 11And before Him there is no ceasing. He knows before the world was created what is for ever and what will be from generation unto generation. 12Those who sleep not bless Thee: they stand before Thy glory and bless, praise, and extol, saying: 'Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of Spirits: He filleth the earth with spirits.'" 13And here my eyes saw all those who sleep not: they stand before Him and bless and say: "Blessed be Thou, and blessed be the name of the Lord for ever and ever." 14And my face was changed; for I could no longer behold.
40: And after that I saw thousands of thousands and ten thousand times ten thousand, I saws multitude beyond number and reckoning, who stood before the Lord of Spirits.
2And on the four sides of the Lord of Spirits I saw four presences, different from those that sleep not, and I learnt their names: for the angel that went with me made known to me their names, and showed me all the hidden things.
3And I heard the voices of those four presences as they uttered praises before the Lord of glory.
4The first voice blesses the Lord of Spirits for ever and ever.
5And the second voice I heard blessing the Elect One and the elect ones who hang upon the Lord of Spirits.
6And the third voice I heard pray and intercede for those who dwell on the earth and supplicate in the name of the Lord of Spirits.
7And I heard the fourth voice fending off the satans and forbidding them to come before the Lord of Spirits to accuse them who dwell on the earth.
8After that I asked the angel of peace who went with me, who showed me everything that is hidden: "Who are these four presences which I have seen and whose words I have heard and written down?"
9And he said to me: "This first is Michael, the merciful and long-suffering: and the second, who is set over all the diseases and all the wounds of the children of men, is Raphael: and the third, who is set over all the powers, is Gabriel: and the fourth, who is set over the repentance unto hope of those who inherit eternal life, is named Phanuel."
10And these are the four angels of the Lord of Spirits and the four voices I heard in those days.
then another place talks about some what seem to be archangels:
20 And these are the names of the holy angels who watch.
2Uriel, one of the holy angels, who is over the world and over Tartarus.
3Raphael, one of the holy angels, who is over the spirits of men.
4Raguel, one of the holy angels who takes vengeance on the world of the luminaries.
5Michael, one of the holy angels, to wit, he that is set over the best part of mankind and over chaos.
6Saraqael, one of the holy angels, who is set over the spirits, who sin in the spirit.
7Gabriel, one of the holy angels, who is over Paradise and the serpents and the Cherubim.
8Remiel, one of the holy angels, whom God set over those who rise.
there are 7 angels listed there. in a different version of enoch there is only 6 listed but I assume this is the fuller/better script...
now this is somewhere in hermas, what I don't get is that there are 6 young men and not 7, it is a mystery to me.:
"Whereupon the old woman approached, accompanied by six young men whom I had also seen before;"
and here is another place:
“This is magnificent and marvellous. But who are the six young men who are engaged in building?” And she said, “These are the holy angels of God, who were first created, and to whom the Lord handed over His whole creation, that they might increase and build up and rule over the whole creation. By these will the building of the tower be finished.”
"These also are holy angels of the Lord, but the former six are more excellent than these."
another place about the 6 angels and maybe other 4? I dunno! or it could be that 2 conveyed her to the tower and 4 lifted the seat, in another part of the book 2 had took the Church ( the lady ) and 4 took the seat:
On her ceasing to speak to me, those six young men who were engaged in building came and conveyed her to the tower, and other four lifted up the seat and carried it also to the tower. The faces of these last I did not see, for they were turned away from me.
another place of 6 men:
I saw six men come, tall, and distinguished, and similar in appearance, and they summoned, a multitude of men. And they who came were also tall men, and handsome, and powerful; and the six men commanded them to build a tower above the rock. And great was the noise of those men who came to build the tower, as they ran hither and thither around the gate.
and christ with them:
And, behold, after a little I see an array of many men coming, and in the midst of them one man (2 Esdras 2:43) of so remarkable a size as to overtop the tower. And the six men who had worked upon the building were with him, and many other honourable men were around him
another area of the text that is explaining some things:
You saw,” he continued, “the six men, and the tall and glorious man in the midst of them, who walked round the tower, and rejected the stones from the building?” “I saw him, sir,” I answered. “The glorious man,” he said, “is the Son of God, and those six glorious angels are those who support Him on the right hand and on the left. None of these glorious angels,” he continued, “will enter in unto God apart from Him. Whosoever does not receive His283 name, shall not enter into the kingdom of God.”